Hi Terry: Even though I went to a Christian Reformed Church for about 13 years I don't know too much about John Calvin. After my "incident" I had a difficult time reading up on anything relating to John Calvin and Election, probably much like how some x-Witnesses feel about reading anything relating to the Org. I know that he was French, but the Dutch seemed to embrace his views. CRC are mostly of Dutch descent, but it is gradually changing. Here's a website that may help you. I really don't know anything about the Puritans.
Guest with Questions
JoinedPosts by Guest with Questions
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WHO KNOWS WHAT A_____________ IS?
by Terry inpuritans.
do you know if there are differences between calvinists and puritans?.
elect.
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Fluff: What kind of music do you listen to?
by Guest with Questions inthis is to be my one day off but i keep coming back here:.
i love a variety of music these are just a few of my favourites:.
not because im canadian but: neil young, joni mitchell, guess who (had a crush on burton cummings-(actually my husband and him looked a lot alike when they were young) gino vinelli,.
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Guest with Questions
Just checked the other site: I can't believe all the responses to that post. Paolo Nutini, that's the name I was looking for.
ex-jw I read some of the responses and had a good chuckle.. when you mentioned Roger Miller, I thought how about Ray Stevens then you mentioned him. Did you listen to Mitch Miller too!!
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Fluff: What kind of music do you listen to?
by Guest with Questions inthis is to be my one day off but i keep coming back here:.
i love a variety of music these are just a few of my favourites:.
not because im canadian but: neil young, joni mitchell, guess who (had a crush on burton cummings-(actually my husband and him looked a lot alike when they were young) gino vinelli,.
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Guest with Questions
So much great music has been mentioned. I would love to find some music that I’ve never heard of before. I know there is one young guy from England that’s more jazz oriented. He has an Italian name but can’t remember. Have never heard him but am curious. Coming home from work I was listening to Andrea Bocelli. It’s contemporary Italian (if I want to listen to Operatic Arias I would rather listen to Pavarotti) and I just love it. Wish I knew how to play Spanish Guitar. I do listen to Marc Antoine-El Matador & Urban Gypsy I especially like. Like Carlos Santana too.
My son’s (25) taste in music is very different from mine but I do like Dream Theatre and we both agree on Pink Floyd. Surprisingly my daughter’s (almost 21) is a lot like mine now. She’s even starting to like some light Classical.
Anony Mouse: I have Dark Side of the Moon and the Wall. I personally prefer and love Dark Side of the Moon. I highly recommend it. You can go to this site. http://www.pinkfloyd.co.uk/dsotm/content/setup.html
prophecor: Earth Wind & Fire loved them. Marvin Gaye is probably my favourite, but the Drifters too and the Temptations....
Notaness: We saw Jars of Clay a while back. Need to Breathe and Leigh Nash, former Sixpence singer, also performed. A really good concert.
I really related to the song The Voice by the Moody Blues
The Voice: http://www.webwriter.f2s.com/moody/lyrics/ldv.htm#voice
A Question: http://www.webwriter.f2s.com/moody/lyrics/aqob.htm#balance
Do any of the older members remember this:
{Epilogue, spoken} Breathe deep in the gathering gloom Watch lights fade from every room Bedsitter people look back and lament Another day's useless energy's spent Impassioned lovers wrestle as one Lonely man cries for love and has none New mother picks up and suckles her son Senior citizens wish they were young Cold-hearted orb that rules the night Removes the colors from our sight Red is gray and yellow white And we decide which is right. And which is an illusion?
The Moody Blues-from Nights in White Satin
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Fluff: What kind of music do you listen to?
by Guest with Questions inthis is to be my one day off but i keep coming back here:.
i love a variety of music these are just a few of my favourites:.
not because im canadian but: neil young, joni mitchell, guess who (had a crush on burton cummings-(actually my husband and him looked a lot alike when they were young) gino vinelli,.
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Guest with Questions
Nine Inch Nails, Fields of the Nephilim, Tool, The Shins, Radiohead, Diana Krall, Van Morrisey, Dead Can Dance, Current 93, Coil, Bright Eyes, Yonder Mountain String Band, Ray LaMontagne, Chris Cornell, Rush,Alice in Chains...
Wow, I'm really showing my age. The bolded ones are the only ones I know and the underlined I have heard about, the rest I have never heard of.
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WE just had our baby boy!!!!!!!!!
by annalice inwell we now have a wonderful happy healthy baby boy ,as of march 30th.
not getting much sleep ,but oh well , he is a joy to have.so wish us luck, we have a 18 month old also, so this should be interesting.
so far my in-laws have not even come to visit or see him at the hospital or to our home , even though they have been told they are always welcome.
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Guest with Questions
Congratulations on the birth of your Baby Boy!!
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Fluff: What kind of music do you listen to?
by Guest with Questions inthis is to be my one day off but i keep coming back here:.
i love a variety of music these are just a few of my favourites:.
not because im canadian but: neil young, joni mitchell, guess who (had a crush on burton cummings-(actually my husband and him looked a lot alike when they were young) gino vinelli,.
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Guest with Questions
This is to be my one day off but I keep coming back here:
I love a variety of music These are just a few of my favourites:
Not because I’m Canadian but: Neil Young, Joni Mitchell, Guess Who (had a crush on Burton Cummings-(actually my husband and him looked a lot alike when they were young) Gino Vinelli,
Loved the Beatles, the Animals growing up. Pink Floyd, Van Morrison, Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young, Simon & Garfunkel, Birds, Marvin Gaye,
enjoy U2, Fleetwood Mac, Sting, Nat King Cole, Charles Aznavour, Marc Antione, Eric Clapton
would love to get a hold of some oldies like Jethro Tull, Cream, Spenser Davis Group, Dusty Springfield (still have a Cilla Black LP)
Beethoven (still my favourite since my teen years), Dvorak, Schubert
I have Miles Davis (but don’t ususally listen to him, Chris Botti, Michael Buble, Herbie Mann (wish I could find his CD’s-have only his album (Evolution of Mann)
My daughter is studying for exams today. Funny, she’s currently listening to CSN & Y. She keeps stealing my CD’s!
As you can tell I grew up in the 60's.
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I have, indirectly, Terry to thank
by Guest with Questions inre his post:http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/132845/1.ashx.
i was trying to find the bible verse that said "help my unbelief" and with my concordance found the following verse: romans 11:25:32. before i quote the scripture i want to relate an experience i had about five years ago.
for about 13 years i went to a christian reformed church.
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Guest with Questions
I dont understand why you would accept the word of some bloke who called himself pastor anyway.
Hi crumpet: I didn't accept the word of this pastor, that's why I didn't go back to his classes and why I didn't go back to this church. I was initially in shock and yes, for a few days I was depressed but I came out of it. I think we all can relate to feelings of uncertainity; that's the only way we grow. If we know all the answers we wouldn't need to learn anything more. When I read Romans 11 it confirmed it to me that this church was wrong on this issue.
It's obvious that we come from totally different views. We have that choice; to believe in God or not to believe in God. I choose to believe. For me not believing is a much bigger leap of faith than believing. I'm sure it's been said time and again but when I look around me, nature, music, my children, our thoughts, our feelings, this all come from nothing? I don't believe that.
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I have, indirectly, Terry to thank
by Guest with Questions inre his post:http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/132845/1.ashx.
i was trying to find the bible verse that said "help my unbelief" and with my concordance found the following verse: romans 11:25:32. before i quote the scripture i want to relate an experience i had about five years ago.
for about 13 years i went to a christian reformed church.
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Guest with Questions
edited to add: quote: "He has chosen some for a purpose, but not chosen some for eternal life with Him and others for eternal damnation or annihilation. That's what I believe." I realize I may be reading you wrong on this.
SixofNine: Not sure if I worded it clearly. What I meant to say was that I do believe that God chooses people for different reasons, Abraham, Paul, etc to fulfill his purpose but that He doesn't chose or not chose people regarding eternal life. I believe that we chose to believe or not to believe in God. Hope that's a bit clearer.
Terry: Thanks for the response. I have to admit, when I first got here I was very intimidated by you and someone mentioned that if one got to know you that you're actually a very nice person. I thank you for your post; not only because I got to know you and a few others a little bit better but it also helped me indirectly to find the answer (for me) about the subject of Election. After the incident of a few days ago it was really nice to hear some positive, and I think kinder, responses. Life is a journey of discovery. I'm not a great intellect but I am a very curious person.
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I have, indirectly, Terry to thank
by Guest with Questions inre his post:http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/132845/1.ashx.
i was trying to find the bible verse that said "help my unbelief" and with my concordance found the following verse: romans 11:25:32. before i quote the scripture i want to relate an experience i had about five years ago.
for about 13 years i went to a christian reformed church.
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Guest with Questions
You should be in therapy for your failing mental health
Hi SixofNine: I went through a difficult time; it's something all people can relate to. I don't have failing mental health.
I've been in the place where you cry for three days straight, and I've been in the place where you believe it has something to do with your relationship with god.
Do you believe because you went through a difficult time that you have failing mental health? It really is an unfair statement.
However, my opinion is that if one is so very... serious about all of this, the best thing to do might be to burn it all down. Start over. Forget all you know or think you know, and try to look at existence, all that there is, with eyes wide open.
Hi daystar: I could see your point if I felt that my faith needed a complete over haul. I just don't feel the need to throw everything away and start all over again. Most of the things I learned over the years I believe. When something comes up that I question I will look into it like I always have.
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I have, indirectly, Terry to thank
by Guest with Questions inre his post:http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/132845/1.ashx.
i was trying to find the bible verse that said "help my unbelief" and with my concordance found the following verse: romans 11:25:32. before i quote the scripture i want to relate an experience i had about five years ago.
for about 13 years i went to a christian reformed church.
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Guest with Questions
re his post:http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/132845/1.ashx
I was trying to find the bible verse that said "help my unbelief" and with my concordance found the following verse: Romans 11:25:32
Before I quote the scripture I want to relate an experience I had about five years ago. For about 13 years I went to a Christian Reformed Church. I enjoyed it there, made many friends and learned a lot and for that I will always be very grateful.
While going through some marital difficulties I went to a Christian counselor. Because I was so curious about the bible she recommended I go to her church (Reformed Church in America) for Bible101. For some reason red flags went up the first night but I shook it off because I tend to be a sceptic. About the fourth week the pastor mentioned something about election that perked my interest, so I asked him about it after class. He said that he would discuss it in a few weeks but I told him that I didn’t want to wait; I wanted the answer. He told me and I was totally blown away. In the 13 years that I was at this church no one had ever told me.
TULIP is the Calvinistic means of categorizing the broad doctrine of human salvation and stands for: 1) Total Depravity; 2) Unconditional Election; 3) Limited Atonement; 4) Irresistible Grace; and 5) the Perseverance
of the Saints.I cried all the way home. I must have cried for about 3 days. I truly thought that I was damned; that my whole family was damned. Why did this have such an effect on me? I had never known of this doctrine before. During that time I was going through a lot of stuff, my marriage, prior to that, my wavering faith in Jesus (not sure if he even existed-to the point that I couldn’t go to church-thought it hypocritical) So I felt, because I didn’t feel the presence of Jesus then it follows that I wasn’t of the elect.
About the 3 rd day I did hear God’s voice (in my thoughts-in case you think I was hearing voices) saying that He never left me; that He was still there.
I left that church; never saw the friends again. I take some of the blame but I was so hurt; I just wanted a clean break. Two ladies did know what I was going through regarding election but they never did call me. The pastor of the other church did call me the following day to make sure I was okay.
In my own mind I tried to think how election could be possible. I couldn’t think of anything. If election was true, how could God be loving, fair, just. He chooses some, and sorry I didn’t choose you; not because you sinned more; but just because. Why were we told to evangelize if He had already chosen? Nothing made sense so I finally had to come to the conclusion that it just couldn’t be true and left it at that.
Today I read Romans 11:25:32 (since this incident I’ve had problems reading Romans-avoiding it)
25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
"The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. 27 And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins".
28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too many now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
Unless I’m totally off I feel this scripture helps me to believe that the election of the Reformed church is different from the election of the bible.
My understanding from this passage (very simplistically) is that God chose the Israelites.
Deut 14:2 ...for you are a people holy to the Lord your God. Out of all the peoples on the face of the earth, the Lord has chosen you to be His treasured possession."
He made an everlasting Covenant (Davidic) with them.
2 Sam 7:13 He is the one who will build a house for my Name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. 16 Your house and your kingdom will endure forever before me; your throne will be established forever."
The Jews rejected Jesus, the Gentiles accepted Jesus but eventually the Jews will also come to a belief in Jesus. (Could the 144,000 be a group of chosen Jews that will evangelize to their own?)
As Gentiles we were at one time separated from the covenants God made with Israel, having no hope, disconnected from God and His family but through the blood of Jesus we are included. Without him we’re like orphans, on the outside looking in. The Gentiles have now been adopted into the family of God - grafted into the root of Israel. (The grafting is mentioned in beginning of Romans 11)
God wants all people to come to Him. He has chosen some for a purpose, but not chosen some for eternal life with Him and others for eternal damnation or annihilation. That's what I believe.
Oh, by the way, three years ago I did go back to church. Followed my daughter to a Pentecostal church (Assemblies of Canada). Very different from the traditional Christian Reformed. I did have concerns but I don't think any church has it perfect. I'm questioning the whole "tongues" thing but it's not reason (for me) to leave at this point. My church is very normal. I love the worship. The pastors are very transparent, not on some pedestal.